User talk:Koppadasao/Archive 1

Welcome
Hi, welcome to Conationary Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Category:Delang page.

Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything such as templates words layout or whatnot!! -- EmperorZelos (Talk) 21:55, 23 March 2010

so we meet here too :P
 * I'll do some reading here tomorrow.

Oppinion
what do you think so far? EmperorZelos 21:37, March 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not sure yet if I'm capable of giving an opinion at this time. --Koppadasao 21:42, March 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright, tell me when you canEmperorZelos 21:46, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Help
Need any help?
 * Perhaps later. For now I just want to say that Delang has no infinitive, so it is either walking, walked or shall walk, or nothing at all.--Koppadasao 17:09, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Think you can provide me with some now. I need to change the Template:Del-Infl to automatically determine what type the verb is by looking at the last letter. If that letter is I, it is a Regular I-verb, if Y, a Regular Y-verb, if anything else, Irregular. How would that be done? And don't worry, I got at real nut for you to crack later... --Koppadasao 17:38, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah alright, sorry then =) Ok, type then (in the part of translation) and read thisand this to help some, i´ll show how its done on that one
 * and fixed now
 * I even added it to my own now XD is it to your satesfaction?
 * EmperorZelos 17:58, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

Nice... :) Then it is only to get the same type, but a lot more complex substitutions for nouns and adjectives... And that is a hard nut to crack.---Koppadasao 18:14, March 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * not really, take a look at my adjectives, nouns, etc. (or their templates more) those are really massive XD

Made two new templates for picking the first and last letter in a word. Next up is a template for making a single upper case letter lower case.--Koppadasao 19:05, March 25, 2010 (UTC) After that I'll go for a template making a single word proper.--Koppadasao 19:09, March 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * Nice, but lower case is done through

test
 * result: test


 * but what do you mean with proper though?
 * EmperorZelos 19:12, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

That did obviously not work... Proper means that the first letter upper case, while the rest is lower case, but I think I was a bit too fast on that, as what I need is to make a whole word lower case.--Koppadasao 19:19, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

It works, i accidently added the # which isnt needed EmperorZelos 19:29, March 25, 2010 (UTC) as for Proper, I´ll fix that too


 * Done


 * Result:

That means I'm almost done with my verb-templates. And I have an easier solution to the noun-problem than what you've done.--Koppadasao 19:49, March 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * I´ll gladly see it but the reason mine is so massive is because I want to allow irregularities to easily be added

Problem
Could you find the error in Template:Del-Infl? --Koppadasao 20:20, March 25, 2010 (UTC) Forget it... I found the error. A missing bar-sign.--Koppadasao 20:31, March 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * Whats wrong?

You mean, what was wrong? It didn't give the result I was expecting. I though it had to be some kind of syntax error, but I couldn't find it in the script. But I did find it on the bottom of the page. The script was calling a template that didn't exist, not the Last Letter-template... So, solution had to be a missing bar-sign (|).--Koppadasao 20:49, March 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * How typical isnt that? I suggest you also make your templates irregularity friendly

Already done with the verb templates.--Koppadasao 20:58, March 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh? doesnt look irregularity friendly EmperorZelos 21:00, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

The only irregularity possible for Delang-verb, is to end i a different letter than I and Y, which are the regular ending. As the tenses are just an added prefix, no spelling changes occurs in verb, something that DO happen in nouns. --Koppadasao 21:04, March 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * Interesting, But some things might still be irregular in the form of being old, very used etc EmperorZelos 21:07, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

Not really. It's because of the way verbs are usually formed in Delang; by adding a -I or less common, a -Y to the accompanying noun. Any noun can build a verb in that manner, and most verbs can build a noun in the reverse manner.--Koppadasao 21:13, March 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ah, I got a temlpate suggestion for nouns then, Noun-Making or something like that where it automaticly cut of the last one :P


 * But ok, I have it in mine because at one time i got "Es'asasi" which naturally is going to get cut short EmperorZelos 21:15, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

As I said, that will usually work, but that does not mean always. While both Marzj-Marzjy and Naden-Nadeni form such pairs drink and drinking does not. It is bibex-bibri, not bibex-bibexi or bibr-bibri or bibx-bibri. Same goes for sleep and sleeping (daurn-daurmi), dinner and dining (dine-dini), marriage and marrying (matrimaunj-matrimauni), and a lot more words, including some that does not exist in English.--Koppadasao 21:26, March 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * Nice, and i found a bot i can use to easily change massive pages at once

Tooth
I think we got the same source XD

EmperorZelos 18:34, March 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * You mean Latin? --Koppadasao 18:38, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Acctually i used PIE for it (a few words do i use indoeuropean references for but most is not)


 * EmperorZelos 18:39, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

Template Helpings
Did you find the set of templates I had made to be helpful to some degree?

EmperorZelos 20:18, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Only as a guide. I've copied what I could use, and modeled the rest upon what I needed.--Koppadasao 20:24, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah i tried my best on creating guidal helps in templates to form langs etc

Bots
SO far no success on what you wanted, but I might have found a way to create articles somehow from a TXT list

EmperorZelos 10:35, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Fixing
Hope you dont mind me fixing up some making it smoother EmperorZelos 16:50, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * No problem. Just streamline the templates, so it looks nice.--Koppadasao 16:54, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

What im trying to do EmperorZelos 16:55, March 26, 2010 (UTC) I also added an example template that automaticly look for the word and bolds it in the example
 * I'll check it out later. Are looking to streamline the translate-template at the moment.--Koppadasao 17:25, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

In what fashion? EmperorZelos 17:27, March 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, obviously you want it to give two different results from it, so I was wondering if there was a different way to get those to results:, and.

--Koppadasao 17:33, March 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * yes but that requries to add stuff into the coding which i cant


 * EmperorZelos 17:35, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think so. I'm not as good as you in coding wiki-script, but still I think there is a better solution to the script.--Koppadasao 17:50, March 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * I do know of loops that would work but again, stuff msut be added

Well, I can't get it :( --Koppadasao 18:58, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Amy
What is your oppinion on that Amy person? I dont get good vibrations from him/her

EmperorZelos 18:08, March 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * me neither.--Koppadasao 18:11, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Bot success
I believe i can create pages soon automated and probably from a list go into definitions as well


 * Sounds nice.--Koppadasao 20:47, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, going to test it as soon as i get some help EmperorZelos 20:58, March 26, 2010 (UTC) found any ideas for templates or anything? EmperorZelos 20:58, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll do some yesterday, as I did some tomorrow, like in the Earth Hour...--Koppadasao 21:07, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

You lost me XD EmperorZelos 21:12, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Looks like I phoned you.--Koppadasao 21:14, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

is that 19th centry slang? D:
 * Nope. I guess you wasn't present when the certification was held. I however was.--Koppadasao 21:34, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Anyhow I made a simular Template
 * Saw it and moved it.--Koppadasao 21:45, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Danke, any other ideas? EmperorZelos 21:54, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nein, im Moment nicht--Koppadasao 22:02, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * But some part of me yearns for a cuddle with Dearest Deb.--Koppadasao 22:06, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

I have gotten the bot to create pages now, if you have a list you want to easily be done tell me
 * Well, the list is on Conlang. Just add each of the verbs in the dictionary there, and I'll be happy.--Koppadasao 13:08, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

I´ll try but I cant garantee anything being fine, you´ll have to check it up afterward fixing things up as it only do things roughly EmperorZelos 13:20, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Try it with a single letter that doesn't have so many words, first.--Koppadasao 13:23, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

You´ll need to tell me which template to use for each class and link me to them so its extremely easy for me to just input stuff Like, do you have one for adjectives, conjugations, etc? I´ll need a template for each one
 * Only verbs for the moment, using Template:Del-AddVerb. Run it through, which only has only two verb in it.--Koppadasao 13:30, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

I´ll give it a try then EmperorZelos 13:32, March 27, 2010 (UTC) fix the rest
 * I'll do.--Koppadasao 13:33, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

Derivation
Is Libixin by any chance from the same word library comes from?

EmperorZelos 22:48, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * That would be correct.--Koppadasao 22:52, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

A test
I tried the A verbs, to your satesfaction?

EmperorZelos 13:50, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * For a test, yes, it did.

Suggestion
If you go and place the examples in t list on conlang along with the accompanying noun (if it breaks the rule that is) I could easily include it in future botloads.
 * Not necessary. Just let the bot treat each verb as being intransitive, making the example Az verb, I'm English-ing. Then have the bot go though the verbs from time to time, changing template to transitive if it finds a word after the verb in the examples.
 * I'll have to check the verbs anyway to add the correct accompanying noun. However the bot can while searching for verbs, watch for nouns with the same translation as the verb. If there is such a noun, it accompany the verb. Like aun-auni, aunjen-aunjeni being translated to own and come, each both being noun and verb in English. That way the bot will be able to track noun-verb pairs that doesn't follow the drop the I/Y-standard. But as a standard it can also drop the I/Y as a standard to create the accompanying noun.
 * Make the suggested changes to the bot and try it on the letter B. It should generate 2 verbs without an accompanying noun (batteli and battelini), making the correct nouns battel and battelin, and 2 with (bex/bexi and bibex/bibri).--Koppadasao 14:45, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * BTW, you couldn't make it so that the bot adds these nouns it creates to the table on The new page?--Koppadasao 14:52, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know what language you program the bot in, but if it is any good you can probably make it do anything except making it stand on it head drinking Whisky while whistling "The Star Spangled Banner".--Koppadasao 14:59, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

Acctually so far I cant have the bot search for anything in any other thread than its currently working on. but as said if you have the accompaning noun placed with the verb in the table on conlang i can bypass it easily.

And i cant do those changes. Im using a bot program which is easy to handle but more limited.

and unfortunately no, I cant add the information to that, But i could make it add them to a category called "Delang New Words" if you want. EmperorZelos 16:07, March 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * Lucky for you that the nouns are in the same table as the verbs, then. But you can add those new words to the New page. You just store those new words in an array, keeping the info collected from the verbs on the page you read from, then open the new page for editing, and flush the array onto the page, saving it. It's no more difficult than what you've already done with the bot.
 * First you search for the verb, like you've already done. Then you parse though the page another time, searching for nouns with the same translation as the verb. Next you create each of the pages based upon the info collected, as before, but this time using collected nouns where such a noun exists or creating nouns where none exist, adding each of these nouns back to the array of verbs, marking them for later in the array. When done creating pages, you parse through the new page, and adds the new nouns the the table, using the information collected earlier.
 * You just expands the array you've been using to collect the verbs, to contain the complete row, with a sixth space for the accompanying noun collected in the second pass. Then you just change the word type from verb to noun and substitute the verb for the new noun, when doing so. Than when the third part of the script, the creation of pages, is finished, you have an array of nouns and verb, that the script will need to run through to eliminate the verbs, keeping the new nouns, so that all that is needed when opening the new page for editing, is to copy each of the rows of the array, except the 6th empty column, into the table.--Koppadasao 16:35, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

Cant, The program doesnt allow that stuff within doing hand job and that will have to be done by you XP

This program ONLY creates pages from colums and rows in a txt document, doesnt search or anything of the kind.

Currently I am attempting to see if i can get around it somehow because i want ot be able to search through words and with a nice looking Def template pull out the meaning and add the word to the proper english word page automaticly

EmperorZelos 16:43, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Mail me the script, and a couple of the other scripts you've been using, together with the documentation you have. Perhaps I can redo the script so that it does what I would like it to do. Mail it to Hidden mail account.--Koppadasao 16:49, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Mailed EmperorZelos 16:57, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

Boting
While i might not be able to use the bot for more simplistic things i do have other programs i can use in combination with it to achive specific goals which i am currently doing

The Emperor Zelos 18:12, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I saw it was possible to program it using dlls.

I failed misribly at that, I am using what i have and create other programs to manipulate what i want into what it want
 * No wonder. From what I saw, the "manual" was awful, if one would call such a piece of junk a manual.

Certainly is trying my best other ways though The Emperor Zelos 21:09, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

Bot Made
The botmade category is for thsoe who want to check out making sure its nice, if you are satesfied with your words the bot made you can remove them from that category The Emperor Zelos 18:14, March 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, ok. Then there is no need for the words to be in that category. BTW, could the bot add the category Delang verbs to those Delang words lacking the category?--Koppadasao 18:17, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I´ll fix it The Emperor Zelos 18:27, March 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but the result wasn't as expected. It added a new category Category:Delang verbs while there is already a Category:Delang Verbs. My mistake?--Koppadasao 18:44, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

Nope, it just didnt notice it, Ive fixed it The Emperor Zelos 18:50, March 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Now all is well on site.--Koppadasao 19:04, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

Template
i created a new template which will create a definition said in english, it is to allow future expansion into possible other languages other than english to be as universal as possible

http://conlangdictionary.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Translate has been improved now so that it can take any amount of variables without adding stuff
 * Nice...--Koppadasao 18:27, April 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yepp, you can use such now
 * I also fixed up the en-def template now to do the same

Update
I have Updated alot of things when it comes tow ord adding, please check it out The Emperor Zelos 20:50, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Del-Noun
I know how you can mark gender for the noun at 1 place in the article and your template picking it up
 * Should I wonder if you may educate me? ;) --Koppadasao 15:59, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

or if i already did it :P http://conlangdictionary.wikia.com/wiki/Del-Gen i assumed indo european here but you can change it, if you do it will automaticly load the gender already declared once in the article for any other templates comming after The Emperor Zelos 16:01, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nice. That way I can specify the correct pronoun to accompany the noun too.--Koppadasao 16:26, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

you can use it alot (i added doc to it describing tiny) but its really easy =) you can use that ALOT The Emperor Zelos 16:28, April 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm still wondering how to finish the template. As it stands now, only the related genitive case for singular is correct....--Koppadasao 19:56, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Is there a function for determining if a letter is a vowel?--Koppadasao 20:43, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

Not really, but if you create a template like Del-Vowel where you put in a letter it can do switch search through all vowels you have and return what value you want if it is a vowel The Emperor Zelos 20:57, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I need something like Template:Del-ce-ze, but so that it returns the correct version of the prefixes d(e)- and c(e)-, and another for des-/dez-. The former loses the e in front of a vowel, while the latter are a bit more complicated, but both need to use Del-ce-ze to ensure correct spelling of the noun.--Koppadasao 21:11, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

I dont get it i use Template:Um-Fix for umbrean corrections though The Emperor Zelos 21:16, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well..., I don't get that template either. But then I don't need something that complicated.
 * I guess you need something that complicated because you use postfixes for declination, as I uses prefixes.
 * --Koppadasao 21:28, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

suffixes, but you can use the same for prefixes, otehrwise id say do a switch The Emperor Zelos 21:37, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll see if I can figure something out. Template:IsVowel is made, at least.--Koppadasao 21:40, April 11, 2010 (UTC)'

Its a start ^_^ The Emperor Zelos 21:51, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've figured out how to do the vowel-thing too... template:Del-IsVowel...--Koppadasao 21:56, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

Excellent, I have enhanced the etyl template alot so now it can contain chains of various forms, check it out
 * Nice.

thank you, think its rather nice now ^_^ easy coding too
 * Only definite simple plural is incorrect now. But this is enough for today.--Koppadasao 22:43, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

Curios
i found |n=Neuter |m=Masculine |f=feminine |c=common |s=sexual im curious, whats the differens between common/netuer and what is sexual? The Emperor Zelos 16:54, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Gender of nouns in Delang are basically sexual genders. Common is for hermaphrodites and for non-neuter words where male or female cannot be deferred by the word itself. I've added the "5th" gender for those common gender words that are not hermaphrodites, like homi, human, which is common in noun gender, but can use masculine (mani), feminine (fami) or common (hami) pronouns. I'll also need to add a "6th" gender for those masculine words that can also use the common pronoun, but not the feminine, like leon, lion, which can both be male and common, but not female, as female lions are leonin. The same goes for boz, ox (cattle), and bozen, cow.
 * But there are only 4 genders in Delang, neuter (inanimate), masculine, feminine and common (animate).
 * I've basically copied the gender theme from Norwegian, which also has 4 genders, although officially Norwegian only has 3 genders. Common gender exist side by side with the other standard genders in some dialect, while other substitutes masculine for common.
 * Take the word girl, jente. It exists in 3 gender in Norwegian, feminine: ei jente, jenta, jenter, jentene; masculine: en jente, jenten, ...; or common: en jente, jenta, .... My dialect uses common for some feminine words, in other words, my Norwegian dialect has 4 genders.

I be damn, i thought it had only 2 like Swedish The Emperor Zelos 17:30, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, most Norwegian dialects has 3 gender, some have 2, like Swedish, and a few has 4. --Koppadasao 17:37, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

i be damn D:

btw where have you been? XP missed you around here The Emperor Zelos 18:01, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've been down with a continuing head ache for about 10 days.--Koppadasao 18:18, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

damn that blows D: feeling better now?
 * Yeah. I do have a head ache though, but that disabilitating type.--Koppadasao 18:43, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

# is for?
in the noun declension table i see some declensions have the # in it, why?
 * It is to be substituted for a number (ce (0), dve (2), tri (3), tire (4), pat (5)...).

ah, either use switch or a template for that
 * And what good will that do? The dictionary doesn't know what number you are counting the item in. It has to be substituted on the go. This is why Delang, with only about 500 words in the dictionary, already has thousands of usable words.--Koppadasao 18:42, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

fair point The Emperor Zelos 18:53, April 11, 2010 (UTC) but replace # with #

Case
"Case of initial letter has meaning in Delang." that i must hear more of
 * Proper case is only used for names, start of sentence and singular special case, which changes the meaning of the word. While the stem bataung means bough or stick, Bataung means dick, the stem qruqj is pot, while Qruqj is tableware that isn't cutlery, anfretex is a fracture or a break, but Fretex means pussy. And as you can see, Qruqj is a singular word for a plural item.
 * In Umbrean you distinguish between countable and uncountable. In Delang all nouns are countable, but if you need to make the word uncountable, you use singular special case, and capitalizes the stem.
 * To distinguish even more between the stem and special care, one cannot write the stem of a noun in a sentence, unless one is talking about the dictionary word. You always have to decline the noun.

DEAR LORD, its klingon!

most languages do have uncountable and uncountable things because not all things you can touch can be counted. But using a differens between capitalized and lower case is.....memory aching

The Emperor Zelos 18:50, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not that hard. You don't have to count a word in Delang. Take day, tema. While today, yesterday and tomorrow are different words in English, they are of the same word stem in Delang. Today is kazetema, which is numeric plural definite of tema, using the number zero, ce, to "count" the day, a term that is actually uncountable. Yesterday, postema and tomorrow, pretema, are timings of the noun. Another clearly uncountable word is sand, perez. If you grab a hand of sand, you doesn't count the grains to build the word, you just say you have zero, ce, sand, kazeperez, or if you point at a beach, ceperez, both Delang words being numerical plural, although if you are talking about beaches, you would still use the word ceperez, but now it is just simple plural.
 * It might sound a bit strange having some plurals be singular, like tableware, Qruqj, and some singulars being plural, like today, kazetema, but it is a lot easier that it sounds. Delang doesn't have words for this and thees, and that and those.--Koppadasao 19:12, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

It sounds completely nonsensical and insane, so i'ts probably going to work for real XP
 * It should do. Just think of numerical plural as being more definite than simple plural, then using indefinite numeric plural for that and those, and definite numeric plural for this and thees. Take tree, komi, three trees are tri cekomi, but thees three trees I'm "holding" are katrikomi, while those you're "holding" are trikomi. Numerical plural are the most difficult part of Delang. If you can grasp that, the rest should be a cake walk in the park.--Koppadasao 19:29, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

Front page
got any suggestions for it?
 * No, not at the moment.--Koppadasao 19:52, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

Btw check out the etyl template, i am upgrading it significantly

Etymology
I have 2 functions, the from (as in it came from middle English into modern form or similar) and the combination one where any + thing becomes anything for example, suggestions for anything else? The Emperor Zelos 22:41, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Then I would suggest having a function for former spellings, too.--Koppadasao 22:49, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

elaborate

also i ahve added the add word thing so you can have your own conlang added there once you are suffiently big, if youre interested The Emperor Zelos 23:00, April 11, 2010 (UTC)